I see a lot of "you've never trained x breed so you wouldn't know" comments.
So here's my Q, why is training so black and white? Why can't all 4 components work?
Don't you think a good trainer should be able to use clicker training and shock collars? Shouldn't they be knowledgeable in all methods so if they come across a dog that x method doesn't work on they are able to switch and try something else?
On that note, why bash clicker training? I understand not liking the click but it's marking behaviors. Operant conditioning. How on earth can you have an issue with that?
And I'm talking REAL training not people that think they know but really don't and end up screwing up the method.
Personally, I think all methods work. Koehler all the way to clicker training. The methods do work.
I agree with you. I think a thoroughly good trainer would have the ability to be both open-minded and flexible; able and willing to do whatever worked with each individual dog to get the job done.
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I compare it to what my mother does in her line of work: she is a special education teacher. She (and the classroom teachers she works with) expose themselves to a wide variety of methods, doing what it takes so that each child learns. YES, there are people, even withing their "circles" who are very uppity and claim that their way-and only their way-works. Guess what? It often doesn't, and students who leave my mother's open classroom often do very , very poorly upon reaching a classroom structured like that.
I don't mean to digress and I don't meant to offend anyone by comparing the two things directly, but to me, it makes perfect sense. You do what works - in all walks of life. There are very, VERY few issues which are so sharply black and white; in fact, in most areas, you must keep an open mind and be willing to see the gray for what it is.
There is no "One Size Fits All" in dog training . What works for one dog may not work for another. It's important to be creative in your training approach. Using all four quadrants of operant conditioning can be appropriate as long as it doesn't lean into over indulging a dog with treats or becoming physically cruel with a dog as well.
I agree with you toatally. There is good and bad in about every training method. You do what works until it doesn't. Then instead of trying to force your will on the dog you have got to take off the blinders and come out of that box. Refusal to do so is going to be nothing more than an exercise in futility where you end up doing more harm than good.
I'm all for clicker training and positive reinforcement. I use clicker training and positive reinforcement with my German Shepherd who has received his Canine Good Citizen award and Therapy Dog International Active Outstanding Volunteer Achievement (TDIAOV) award. Shock collars, or any other punitive "training" device for that matter, completely disgust me.
Wow. There are 4 components? Personally, I use whatever works without knowing it even has a name. I think no one method will work for all dogs, and certainly finding a balance of all four (four? ) may be the proper solution for many.
At any rate, I hear and see more bashing from the foodies/clicker folks where it comes to Koehler then vice verse. The Koehler folks are confidant in the method and let the results speak for themselves.
Because I am TIRED of BLEEDING HEART AR wackos trying to tell ME how I am so "cruel" to MY dogs. They need to SHUT UP and SHAPE UP!
pets question and answers,www.5d2d.com
I've trained FAR more dogs than their MORONIC minds can handle
Of course they all work. Anyone who thinks they don't really doesn't understand do they?
I personally like training with crossover trainers. They know how the other side does it. They've been there-and have the pretty ribbons to show for it, but they've now continued their education (as you are suggesting we should all do ). They use positive reinforcement, negative punishment, and extinction (that's a pretty big box!). Learning is a never ending process, and anyone who gets stuck in a certain mindset is not really helping themselves or their students.
Most of the trainers that I look up to have had "problem" dogs (HA, DA, SA etc etc) and they have had to leave their little box behind.
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bashing clicker trainers=extinction burst (lol)
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my fav is that "we" (general we) don't have "real" dogs. (lol)
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my other fav-that somehow we are gooey cookie pushers-sorry, most dogs would be shocked if they had to come live with me (can we say work!).
Personally i would use positive method training or clicker training i probably will only use shock collars for a last resort but only because i wouldnt put it on me so i wouldnt put it on any other animal or person. I like clicker training because it marks the behavior so the pup knows what he/she was supposed to do and what they are being rewarded for. It is easier in my opinion to use clicker training because through the dogs ive trained they picked it up faster than no clicker but all dogs are different so your dog might need a different training. Because my friend has a new pup and WAS going to clicker train her but the pup is terrified of that sound when ever she even pulls it out she runs away is it poor socialization or sometimes does it just now work? well never know but I would strongly suggest clicker train instead of shock collars but that is again just my opinion and if a dog trainor suggests it doesnt mean they are wrong or right so it is all up to you and your opinions. Other methods of training are just treating when doing right, or any other way ..... I hope this helps! or not
